Comments on: BestBuy No Longer Checking ID’s With Credit Card Purchases http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/ Obsessive Compulsive Entrepreneur Mon, 12 May 2008 09:26:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Shawna http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-82263 Shawna Wed, 07 May 2008 05:57:03 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-82263 My purse was stolen last week and within one hour, my two Citibank credit cards were used at Wal-Mart, QuikTrip and Dillard's (total of about $2,000). Eventually, Citibank put an end to the shopping spree. Although the entire ordeal will be a hassle for me, I will not be required to pay Citibank for these fraudulent charges. However, my $100 purse was stolen (plus a $50 wallet, $350 camera, $100 memory card, and $200 worth of gift certificates). In addition, they busted out the window of our Avalon (another $200). I now have a different viewpoint regarding store clerks asking for my ID. Since thieves know they can use credit cards without any identification, “the system” has created an "open door" for the thieves. All they have to do is steal a purse/wallet and within one hour they can obtain thousands of dollars worth of merchandise. So, now when you park your car at a park or jogging trail, the likelihood of someone breaking in is much greater today than it was ten years ago. Stolen purses/wallets are so common place that the police can not keep up with all the files. It has taken me over 45 hours to track down the details (tracking were the cards were used, talking to the members of Loss Prevention at each store, requesting them to view their surveillance video, speaking with them about their findings, getting the different Loss Prevention specialist on conference calls so they could compare their stores video footage, requesting copies of the video to be burned on DVD for the police, obtaining copies of the sales receipts for the police, requesting copies of the actual signatures from the credit card companies, following-up with everyone involved, etc). That’s 45 hours already and the police still have to prepare the case, get it to the District Attorney, and the criminals must be charged & prosecuted. The police and the DA’s office are overwhelmed with their caseload (that’s why so many of these criminals get away with their crimes and continue on their rampage to find another victim). I think that the credit card companies need to change their policies. Right now, they want their credit cards to replace the cash. On the good side, the credit card system allows consumers to make hassle-free purchases (it’s extremely efficient). However, these same companies have created a nightmare for our country because they have created gold mine for all the thieves. It’s like an Easter egg hunt where a $2,000 (plus) jackpot is hidden inside almost every single egg. Steel a purse/wallet and any thief can easily win the jackpot! I think MasterCard and Visa should give their customers the option of requiring a Pin Number be used with their credit card. Then, the next time I use my card at Wal-Mart or Best Buy, the “system” would require me to provide Pin Number. What if the majority of the consumers did the same thing? Eventually, the thieves would realize that their purse/wallet snatching scheme isn’t worth it (most people carry very limited cash anymore so the inherent value of purse/wallet snatching is related to the credit cards). Keep in mind that the stores do not get charged, if they accept an unauthorized credit card (so they have very little incentive to ensure the charge is authorized). With the current policies by the powers at MasterCard and Visa, we are sitting ducks just waiting to become a statistic. My purse was stolen last week and within one hour, my two Citibank credit cards were used at Wal-Mart, QuikTrip and Dillard’s (total of about $2,000). Eventually, Citibank put an end to the shopping spree. Although the entire ordeal will be a hassle for me, I will not be required to pay Citibank for these fraudulent charges. However, my $100 purse was stolen (plus a $50 wallet, $350 camera, $100 memory card, and $200 worth of gift certificates). In addition, they busted out the window of our Avalon (another $200). I now have a different viewpoint regarding store clerks asking for my ID. Since thieves know they can use credit cards without any identification, “the system” has created an “open door” for the thieves. All they have to do is steal a purse/wallet and within one hour they can obtain thousands of dollars worth of merchandise. So, now when you park your car at a park or jogging trail, the likelihood of someone breaking in is much greater today than it was ten years ago. Stolen purses/wallets are so common place that the police can not keep up with all the files. It has taken me over 45 hours to track down the details (tracking were the cards were used, talking to the members of Loss Prevention at each store, requesting them to view their surveillance video, speaking with them about their findings, getting the different Loss Prevention specialist on conference calls so they could compare their stores video footage, requesting copies of the video to be burned on DVD for the police, obtaining copies of the sales receipts for the police, requesting copies of the actual signatures from the credit card companies, following-up with everyone involved, etc). That’s 45 hours already and the police still have to prepare the case, get it to the District Attorney, and the criminals must be charged & prosecuted. The police and the DA’s office are overwhelmed with their caseload (that’s why so many of these criminals get away with their crimes and continue on their rampage to find another victim). I think that the credit card companies need to change their policies. Right now, they want their credit cards to replace the cash. On the good side, the credit card system allows consumers to make hassle-free purchases (it’s extremely efficient). However, these same companies have created a nightmare for our country because they have created gold mine for all the thieves. It’s like an Easter egg hunt where a $2,000 (plus) jackpot is hidden inside almost every single egg. Steel a purse/wallet and any thief can easily win the jackpot! I think MasterCard and Visa should give their customers the option of requiring a Pin Number be used with their credit card. Then, the next time I use my card at Wal-Mart or Best Buy, the “system” would require me to provide Pin Number. What if the majority of the consumers did the same thing? Eventually, the thieves would realize that their purse/wallet snatching scheme isn’t worth it (most people carry very limited cash anymore so the inherent value of purse/wallet snatching is related to the credit cards). Keep in mind that the stores do not get charged, if they accept an unauthorized credit card (so they have very little incentive to ensure the charge is authorized). With the current policies by the powers at MasterCard and Visa, we are sitting ducks just waiting to become a statistic.

]]> By: shandyking http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-81938 shandyking Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:25:48 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-81938 Eric, that is interesting! Eric, that is interesting!

]]> By: Eric http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-81937 Eric Fri, 14 Mar 2008 02:07:51 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-81937 Hi there. Stumbled upon this... Its actually my fault (?) that Best BUy has trained their employees this way. I was shopping at the Best Buy on LaBrea in Hollywood, when i was asked for my ID for my Visa purchase. I informed the clerk that my card was signed, and she was welcome to make a Code 10 call if she felt that the charge was fraudulent, and Visa can make the decision if they would honor the payment by phone. She refused and I asked for a manager. The manager told me that checking IDs was a store policy. I pointed to the HUGE sign above all the registers that show all of the store policies, including returns, checks, etc., and noted that ID checks for credit cards are nowhere on there. He told me that he wanted my ID. I actually went back with the full merchant agreement from Visa and showed him where Visa instructs that merchants cannot ask for ID as a requirement for acceptance of the card. He still wouldn't budge, and I paid with my ATM card. He watched me put in my PIN number, which was the last straw. I emailed Best Buy's Executive Vice President Shari Lombard (thanks, Google), who told me that she has ordered the immediate retraining of all Best Buy employees for credit card purchases. Hi there. Stumbled upon this… Its actually my fault (?) that Best BUy has trained their employees this way. I was shopping at the Best Buy on LaBrea in Hollywood, when i was asked for my ID for my Visa purchase. I informed the clerk that my card was signed, and she was welcome to make a Code 10 call if she felt that the charge was fraudulent, and Visa can make the decision if they would honor the payment by phone. She refused and I asked for a manager. The manager told me that checking IDs was a store policy. I pointed to the HUGE sign above all the registers that show all of the store policies, including returns, checks, etc., and noted that ID checks for credit cards are nowhere on there. He told me that he wanted my ID. I actually went back with the full merchant agreement from Visa and showed him where Visa instructs that merchants cannot ask for ID as a requirement for acceptance of the card. He still wouldn’t budge, and I paid with my ATM card. He watched me put in my PIN number, which was the last straw. I emailed Best Buy’s Executive Vice President Shari Lombard (thanks, Google), who told me that she has ordered the immediate retraining of all Best Buy employees for credit card purchases.

]]> By: Sabrina http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-81883 Sabrina Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:00:35 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-81883 Yea, I thought this don't check for I.D. rule was strange too. I had recently gotten the job at Best Buy and heard this new law. Which out here in Arizona is a bad rule since I was told that Arizona is one of the top identity theft/ fraud states. I heard that one reason is that credit card companies pride themselves so much on their anti-fraud protection thing that you as a consumer shouldn't have to worry about it. But thats just a rumor to why that I had heard of. Also, another rumor I heard was that people who think they are safe by writing "SEE I.D." on the back of their cards (beside the fact that stores don't look for it) is that not putting your signature on the back means you do not agree to the terms of the card and supposedly can't be used. But oh well huh. I guess you should also know what and where your credit card has been used. PAY ATTENTION! Yea, I thought this don’t check for I.D. rule was strange too. I had recently gotten the job at Best Buy and heard this new law. Which out here in Arizona is a bad rule since I was told that Arizona is one of the top identity theft/ fraud states. I heard that one reason is that credit card companies pride themselves so much on their anti-fraud protection thing that you as a consumer shouldn’t have to worry about it. But thats just a rumor to why that I had heard of. Also, another rumor I heard was that people who think they are safe by writing “SEE I.D.” on the back of their cards (beside the fact that stores don’t look for it) is that not putting your signature on the back means you do not agree to the terms of the card and supposedly can’t be used. But oh well huh. I guess you should also know what and where your credit card has been used. PAY ATTENTION!

]]> By: Cara Combs http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-75139 Cara Combs Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:06:57 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-75139 If I understand the above posts and links correctly, although it is illegal to ask for an ID, a merchant IS supposed to compare the signature on the credit card and on the sales slip (step 6 of Visa's rules)...yes? If so, how does this figure into self check-outs? Two days ago, a thief stole my purse and bought a $756 computer with my credit card using Wal-Mart's self check-out. Six minutes later, he came back to buy a PS3 from electronics, was asked to provide ID, said he would get it from the car, and never returned (did I mention I'm female, so the ID would not have matched?) ID aside, the signature would not have matched when compared either. I don't understand how a credit card can be used to self-check since there is no signature comparison. Wouldn't this be in the best interest of the retailer, the credit issuer, and the consumer? Couldn't one of the attendants that monitors the self-check be prompted to compare signatures for large purchases? I welcome explanations from anyone who is knowledgeable on this topic because I'm having trouble finding what obligations Wal-Mart has for protecting consumers from fraudulent charges. If I understand the above posts and links correctly, although it is illegal to ask for an ID, a merchant IS supposed to compare the signature on the credit card and on the sales slip (step 6 of Visa’s rules)…yes?

If so, how does this figure into self check-outs? Two days ago, a thief stole my purse and bought a $756 computer with my credit card using Wal-Mart’s self check-out. Six minutes later, he came back to buy a PS3 from electronics, was asked to provide ID, said he would get it from the car, and never returned (did I mention I’m female, so the ID would not have matched?)

ID aside, the signature would not have matched when compared either. I don’t understand how a credit card can be used to self-check since there is no signature comparison. Wouldn’t this be in the best interest of the retailer, the credit issuer, and the consumer? Couldn’t one of the attendants that monitors the self-check be prompted to compare signatures for large purchases?

I welcome explanations from anyone who is knowledgeable on this topic because I’m having trouble finding what obligations Wal-Mart has for protecting consumers from fraudulent charges.

]]> By: Paul Michelow http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-64304 Paul Michelow Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:42:07 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-64304 California law allows merchants to require photo ID However no information is allowed to be copied from this ID. Check state law before making blanket statements about what is and is not allowed California law allows merchants to require photo ID However no information is allowed to be copied from this ID. Check state law before making blanket statements about what is and is not allowed

]]> By: David Sargent http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-58632 David Sargent Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:18:04 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-58632 While I dislike having to delay everyone in the line behind me. When the clerk tells me it is for my protection, or the manager tells them they must ask for ID, I explain that violates the card accepters agreement and explain that anyone with my permission may use the card so It doesn't make a difference what I may be carring as ID. While the clerks usually take it as if I am making her job unpleasent I remind them that in the past bosses required their employees to ask for a social security number to write on a check. Which if the person was foolish enough to give their actual number were also being compromished because a store manager thought they had solved the stolen identity program, but actually enhancing it. I explained that I was responsible enough to report my card stolen so you would be alerted when it was read through the system. While I dislike having to delay everyone in the line behind me. When the clerk tells me it is for my protection, or the manager tells them they must ask for ID, I explain that violates the card accepters agreement and explain that anyone with my permission may use the card so It doesn’t make a difference what I may be carring as ID. While the clerks usually take it as if I am making her job unpleasent I remind them that in the past bosses required their employees to ask for a social security number to write on a check. Which if the person was foolish enough to give their actual number were also being compromished because a store manager thought they had solved the stolen identity program, but actually enhancing it. I explained that I was responsible enough to report my card stolen so you would be alerted when it was read through the system.

]]> By: Alan Fullmer http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-56059 Alan Fullmer Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:28:06 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-56059 No you cannot ask for ID as a condition of the sale. MasterCard, specifically has these options on their Merchant Violations: http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html "The merchant/retailer required identification." Visa's are pretty straight forward: 1. Check the card security features. 2. Swipe the stripe 3. Check for authorization response (approved, declined, etc) 4. Match the numbers 5. Request a signature 6. Compare the signature Those are the steps when accepting a Visa card. Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement...The contract that MasterCard merchants sign specifically prevents them from asking for personal ID. From: http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt. Futhermore, you cannot write down any part of any information from the card, specifically the CVV number. You cannot record, store the CVV for longer than it takes the transaction to record and process, then it must be destroyed. Even further, it is not legal to write 'see ID' on the card itself as a substitute for a signature. Stores that require ID are violating regulations and should be reported to the agency. Best Buy recently stopped doing this due to lawsuits. References: http://www.wlindley.com/archives/28 http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html http://www.in.gov/dfi/education/pdfs/id.pdf No you cannot ask for ID as a condition of the sale.

MasterCard, specifically has these options on their Merchant Violations: http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html
“The merchant/retailer required identification.”

Visa’s are pretty straight forward:
1. Check the card security features.
2. Swipe the stripe
3. Check for authorization response (approved, declined, etc)
4. Match the numbers
5. Request a signature
6. Compare the signature

Those are the steps when accepting a Visa card.

Your personal ID isn’t needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement…The contract that MasterCard merchants sign specifically prevents them from asking for personal ID.

From: http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt.

Futhermore, you cannot write down any part of any information from the card, specifically the CVV number. You cannot record, store the CVV for longer than it takes the transaction to record and process, then it must be destroyed. Even further, it is not legal to write ’see ID’ on the card itself as a substitute for a signature.

Stores that require ID are violating regulations and should be reported to the agency. Best Buy recently stopped doing this due to lawsuits.

References:
http://www.wlindley.com/archives/28
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf
http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html
http://www.in.gov/dfi/education/pdfs/id.pdf

]]> By: Todd http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-53489 Todd Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:33:02 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-53489 Thank God these national chains are finally complying. So when I refuse to show ID, usually I get attitude from the clerk. "We're just trying to protect you." I find this confusing and possibly misleading. Merchants can't have an obligation to clientelle in this way, and only a fool would believe it. I guess the question is: As consumers do we need this kind of protection from the merchant or the CC company? I usually end up telling the merchant "It's not my card, it belongs to Visa. Please call them if you have a problem." Thank God these national chains are finally complying.

So when I refuse to show ID, usually I get attitude from the clerk. “We’re just trying to protect you.” I find this confusing and possibly misleading. Merchants can’t have an obligation to clientelle in this way, and only a fool would believe it.

I guess the question is: As consumers do we need this kind of protection from the merchant or the CC company?

I usually end up telling the merchant “It’s not my card, it belongs to Visa. Please call them if you have a problem.”

]]> By: Melissa http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-53284 Melissa Sun, 21 Oct 2007 06:20:56 +0000 http://www.shandyking.com/2007/07/20/bestbuy-no-longer-checking-ids-with-credit-card-purchases/#comment-53284 Speaking as a manager in a nationwide specialty retailer, every day, numerous times, people swipe their cards and then start to put them up immediately. We say, "I need to see the back of your card, please" (which is also the message they get after swiping-"Please hand card to cashier." They whine about having to dig it back out, then they whine when we check their ID because most of their cards are NOT signed. These people have a false sense of security and worse, we the merchant get stuck when mr or mrs cardholder disputes the charges. It's holiday season...I'm ready for the battle...but not happy about it. Speaking as a manager in a nationwide specialty retailer, every day, numerous times, people swipe their cards and then start to put them up immediately. We say, “I need to see the back of your card, please” (which is also the message they get after swiping-”Please hand card to cashier.” They whine about having to dig it back out, then they whine when we check their ID because most of their cards are NOT signed. These people have a false sense of security and worse, we the merchant get stuck when mr or mrs cardholder disputes the charges. It’s holiday season…I’m ready for the battle…but not happy about it.

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