I feel that there is a large populous that want America to lose in Iraq for the sake of saying “told you so”

These next few years are going to be very trying for how our nation will shape itself. Thankfully, this crazy populous speaks alot of rhetoric, but rarely does it solidify as policy.

There are only two kinds of Americans:

Americans who hate terrorism and those who love it.
Americans who want the US to win the war in Iraq and those who want Iraq to win.
Americans who support the troops and Americans who prefer that our troops get killed.
Americans who support George Bush and Americans who support the terrorists.

There is no Grey area. God bless America!

Well Shandy, I’ve got to admit that much, if not most of your views re “peak oil” are unfortunately true, we are a society (as are all developed nations) absolutely dependent on fossil materials (certainly for fuels, but for most everything else we touch in our lives). However, we really cannot simply throw up our hands and surrender saying it’s just too big to change. While oil is the basis for our water bottles, baby incubators, breathing tubes, paints and stains, etc., its least efficient use is for fuel.

As such, it is more than imperative that we take radical action to drastically reduce our dependence on fossil fuels immediately.

We, the “liberals” (notice how close liberal and liberate are to each other) believe that it is our task to liberate our society from the oppressive rule that oil has on us.

As such, some of us take a more virulent stand on the issue than others, and as is the wont of highly emotional persons, sometimes choose their words unwisely, though their argument may be just.

Since we have become a nation of either/or, and no longer one of shades of gray and compromise, those who call themselves “conservatives” (note the root CONSERVE, meaning to protect from loss or to use unwisely) are those that support the wastefull use of this dwindling resource.

The fact is that corporations, including the oil and automotive industries, have zero interest in conservation of resources. They are beholden to shareholders who seek earnings, either from dividends or growth in share price or both, and as such have pressure to perform today rather than look at what’s best for society down the road.

It is the duty of our Government to steer us in the right directions toward the future, and their failure to do so is the primary cause of the vitriol that “spews” from the left.

People who argue vehemently that corporations and our government are destroying our place in the world are not anti-American, but rather the truest lovers of America. They are the ones who love what our country stands for and want all those rights and freedoms available for our children and grandchildren. They are the ones who truly honor and revere what our fathers and forefathers gave so much for.

History shows us that empires do not last (see Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Brittish Empire, et al.) and that our current government has, by both word and deed, pursued such a position.

Indeed, we as a nation built of the highest goals and motives, do have by our very nature, a responsibility to be an active part of the world. One which may at times require us to be involved in the internal affairs of other sovereign nations, and not without the possibility of military action in such events.

This does not mean that we have the obligation, nor even the right, to take such military actions pre-emptively and without such just cause that the rest of the world would not share consensus.

We are blessed to live in the most remarkable nation of memory. This does not mean that we are perfect.

When we hear our President say that he doesn’t pay attention to polls, polls which show his administration’s approval below a third of the electorate, and to ignore the wishes of said electorate as demonstrated by the most recent elections. When we hear of acts of rendition, improper violations of privacy laws, misuse of taxpayer funds, and other such behavior, we are forced to look to that most venerable of our documents, our Declaration of Independance, and follow the words of the founders of this place.

“He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.” (see suspense of habeus corpus, NSA violation of FISA laws, etc.)

“He has obstructed the Administration of Justice,…” (see Scooter Libby, US Atty scandal refusal to obey subpoenae)

“He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.”( Ok, they don’t eat out our substance, but this is the largest govt. in our history, and he has suspended or ignored many of the laws established to protect us from abuse of power)

“He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.” (meaning Congress)

“For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:” (see Gitmo)

“He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.” (well, not entirely, but failure to protect New Orleans is tantamount to such)

“He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.” (again, see Blackwater operatives, Gitmo, Abu Graib)

The above citations were written about a king named George, the paranthetical comments regarding a president who thinks himself a king named George.

It is in the tradition of Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams, John Hancock, and other great Patriots, that We The People speak out fervently against those that have coopted our government and lessened our greatness and position in the world.

It is not anti-American to voice these points, it is rather in the purest of American traditions to do so. Anyone who states otherwise it the true anti-American.

God Bless America!

Submitted respectfully by Gee

Strange huh!

Anyway, I do love America, I am not anti American however I do maintain that a lot of our actions lately do come off as being very arrogant and righteous. I can easily see why
others around the world hate us so.

The link that disappeared was this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

After looking through your rightwing lexicon, I believe your main argument is that we have to fight for our own interests abroad. That makes sense, but there’s something called balance. Securing treaties and deals with foreign partners is one thing, but exploiting and corrupting them for pure gain is far another. I know we’re never going to be all lovey-dovey, that’s too idealistic. But friendly nations and partners are hard to maintain when you are walking on top of their people.

As for oil having shaped our lives? It has. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look at other viable options for powering our machinary, making our plastics, transporting people and goods, and all of the things oil currently does. That’s such backward thinking as saying “Horses and windmills have done so much for us; why would we switch to oil?” It can do plenty, but think about how much more if we could rely more on more abundant coal, nuclear power, or possibly renewable sources straight from the US?

“I would say if anyone is equipped to defend the United States from a standpoint of actually breathing the air of foreign countries and walking around their streets and speaking with their citizens, I am that person.” [your words]

Just because you have a passport and enough money to consider yourself a world traveler does not make you a foreign policy expert.

“I find it easy to dismiss any claims anyone wants to make about how terrible the United States is.” [ ]

You can stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes in an effort to avoid the truth, but the truth is the United States government has become the world’s bully.

“I have no problem with [the fact that] the United States […] interfere[s] with foreign politics and institutes “puppet administrations” [ ]

You are a bully.

“…suaveness and propaganda one can manipulate their current political climate and rise to power over night, thus creating a new enemy with the means to cause problems.”
[ ]

This is exactly what the president and his men have done.

“It makes clear sense to me that we intervene in other nations political affairs as a way of protecting our own interests.” [ ]

Then you should have no problem with what happened on September 11, 2001, and bear no hard feelings toward those who attacked us.

“My argument may not be politically correct and is completely self-serving but that is what we are talking about here, self-serving interests.” [ ]

Your argument is morally deficient as well as politically incorrect. Selfishness is simply another way of defining greed.

“To counter the argument that we are in the Middle East for anything other then oil, well I can not.” [ ]

This proves the limitation and uselessness of your point of view.

“I will be the first to concede, our involvement in the Middle East has to do with oil. And why not, it is a natural resource we are dependent on.” [ ]

So if the U.S. wants it, this is sufficient reason to take it; a thief has the same standard. You have indicted yourself.

“If the bulk of oil we need with that specific grade our infrastructure is dependent on exists in a part of the world where they do not support our life style I would say that we have a big problem with highly conflicting interests.” [ ]

What exactly are these conflicting interests? A foreign nation has some resource the U.S. want, and the U.S. believes it has the right to steal that resource, and will do whatever is necessary to take control of the resource. If this is your point, it is the mentality of a thug.

“I do have a problem when anti-Americanists make a point that big oil companies control our government and only if they didn’t lobby against the “Electric Car” we would all be less dependent on oil and thus we would not need to be over in the Middle East stealing theirs.” [ ]

What problem do you have with this? You already have said you have no problem stealing the natural resources of other countries.

“Interesting enough the persons that I typically argue with on these point own upper class new modern homes in private gated communities. Some even own multiple homes with multiple high class SUV’s.” [ ]

These folks you ‘argue’ with apparently feel there is no connection between their life style and how it affects U.S. foreign policy. This is a luxury reserved for the affluent.

“I say we need oil and for survival purposes we must maintain our supply.” [ ]

At what cost? Is there nothing you would not do or consider acceptable in the drive to “maintain our supply [of oil]?

“If we do not maintain our supply and continue to find immediate sources of oil then I have no doubt that spewing anti-Americanism would be the least of our problems.” [ ]

So what would be the “most” of our problem? What will happen thirty to fifty years from now when oil reserves are depleted?

“But let’s not forget the fact that for what ever the reasons may be, currently we do not get a long with people who are sitting on a natural resource that we need and we will most likely not get along with them for quite sometime.” [ ]

This is exactly what the president and his men have been selling the American people and you have taken the bait. Welcome to the gullible world of make believe.

“We will of course play our little games where we continue to send Ambassadors and other public officials over around the world to handle business peacefully. But at the end of the day I do not care how far we have come as a society. In spirit of survival of the fittest things must be handled a certain way.” [ ]

That is exactly what the people who perpetrated the attacks of September 11, 2001 believed. I suppose they should be able to make their point any way they choose if the U.S. believes there is no limit to what it can do to serve its national interest. This is a rescription for perpetual war.